Josh 0:00

I mean, can we just sit here for a second and appreciate that that he didn't also try and have a creator named after himself when he heard about it?

Pamela 0:06

I'm sure he's he'll write an executive order.

Josh 0:11

I mean, you guys, what we should have done. So I've been doing my Trump impersonation around Pamela somewhat regularly, and that's the reaction I'm starting to get. And the only reason why I like that reaction, because I have no desire to really troll you, uh, but that means that my impersonation's getting good enough to bother you. And that makes me happy in that I'm getting good at the impersonation.

Pamela 0:46

You're listening to premeditated opinions because yes, we thought about it, and then we said it anyway. I'm Pamela.

Josh 0:53

And I'm Josh, and we are two people who somehow share a brain and decided to weaponize our brains with microphones. Each week, we unpack anything from politics and religion to carpool dread and everything in between.

Pamela 1:06

You know, it would really help us a lot if you followed us on Instagram and YouTube. Giving us a like and a follow is probably the best thing your thumbs will do today.

Josh 1:15

We are not experts. We are just way too confident in our own opinions. With all that being said, let's get started. Welcome back to Premeditated Opinions. We are thrilled that you are joining us and we are coming to you uh virtually. Uh, in keeping with what we talked about in our last episode, we we kind of made it very clear that we're trying some new formats, some new approaches. Um, and that is just in an effort to be a little kinder to ourselves and uh uh try and acclimate a little bit to just how our lives have changed, because they've changed a bunch in the last few months. And so, and we talked about that all in our last episode. Please go check that out if you have no idea what I'm talking about. Feel free to jump back. Um, but yeah, so I am currently sitting in my office in my house, about 50 miles away from where Pamela is sitting at her kitchen table, which is where we have frequently recorded. So yeah, yeah. But I think this is gonna be totally fine.

Pamela 2:10

So yeah, I mean, it's first season, and um I I gotta admit, and this is probably gonna sound weird to whoever's listening, but it's weird to like be looking at you like like this. Like I'm so used to being like beside you and like you're talking to the camera, and now it's like you're introing to me.

Josh 2:34

Basically, yeah, yeah. Yeah, welcome to our Teams call that we are all on together.

Pamela 2:40

Um, so yeah, that'll be that'll be a fun twist for a little bit, but it's it's it's all good.

Josh 2:46

It's all good. Well, man, we've had a lot going on uh in the world around us is since last time we talked. I mean, I don't want to dive into this first, but uh we had a whole moon exploration happen from the time we released the last episode to the time this episode's gonna release. Like four human beings left the earth and orbited the moon and came back in that time, which is amazing. And I've been a little bit obsessed with it, especially in the last couple days since they touched down and a little bit jealous. Seriously, though.

Pamela 3:19

Like if we happen to break out into World War III, at least they could probably just hang out in orbit a little bit longer.

Josh 3:26

Right, yeah, just stay up there. Yeah, you if you got the provisions and the time and whatever, just maybe stay there. Um but no, so we we're we're gonna do a little bit more of this virtual format from time to time as it makes sense, especially between now and the summer. We're probably gonna revamp some of this again in the summer. Um uh we'll likely go back to some of our previous format, but I don't want to speak too soon about it because it feels like a long ways away, and we'll sort it out when we get there. Um but anyway, so one of the things that Pamela and I have been talking about is uh we have a podcast called Premeditated Opinions. And we have done some work in the last six months of the existence of this podcast to express some of those opinions and reinforce them, um, you know, and and argue our sides and and whatever. And one of the things that we thought would be a lot of fun is kind of getting back to that a little bit. And this all kind of stemmed from an article that you found, actually, um, that uh just kind of brought up uh uh something that women specifically are dealing with literally all over the world, and it's getting a little bit more media attention now. And I think it's interesting and compelling. And I would why don't you set the stage a little bit for us as to kind of what what you found and why you think it's important?

Pamela 4:55

Yeah, so um before I hop into that, um, real quick, with the premeditated opinions, um, you know, we have been very cautious, I guess, in how we proceed in those opinions because especially being a new-ish podcast, we didn't want to alienate the audience with our opinions. Um, but now we're kind of wanting to lean a little bit harder into what those opinions are. Um, and I thought since we were kind of changing formats a little bit, I thought it would be interesting to have a female and male perspective on some of this stuff. Um and we'll have other topics or legislation or or whatever that will we'll talk through the the good, the bad, the ugly, uh female perspective, male perspective. Um but uh when I was reading this article, it got me thinking. And then I actually asked my husband about it. And his opinion was not exactly what I was anticipating. I mean, it wasn't far off from what I was expecting, but um, that just kind of got the wheels turning about like this would be a really great conversation for us to have, like, and actually pre-meditate our opinions before we hit record.

Josh 6:24

Yeah, not a bad idea.

Pamela 6:26

Um, okay, so so the legisl it's it's uh legislation that's being proposed in Kenya. And it's basically they are deciding whether or not they want to allow women to have two days off a month for menstrual cycle things.

Josh 6:54

Yeah.

Pamela 6:55

Um, and I have mixed opinions about it, honestly. Um I don't know. Uh so Josh actually has an article pulled up. Do you is there any more meat that we can give them with?

Josh 7:09

Yeah, so absolutely. So this was uh I'm I'm reading this off of the uh uh ABC affiliate in Chicago. They actually posted this article um and it's it's all centered around women's health. And essentially, you you're right, it the it's legislation in Nairobi, Kenya, but it's it's actually the way that they're approaching this is interesting. So the leadership involved with the the county where Nairobi is located is who is proposing this. So this would only initially affect employees of that county, but there's there's 18,000 female employees in that county. So it's it's a large group, and it's consistent with some other efforts that are starting to take place um in other parts of the world, specifically Africa and Europe. But um, so the new policy took effect in December 2025. So it's it's going now.

Pamela 7:58

Oh, okay, okay.

Josh 7:59

And it grants county government employees in the capital, Nairobi, two days off every month to deal with the pain and discomfort of menstruation with the aim of improving productivity and well-being. And then it goes on to talk a little bit about just kind of how this came about, how women have responded to it, um, and like just in general, the the the change in quality of life that's involved with something like this, you know, when okay.

Pamela 8:25

I want to put a pin in that um and talk through uh our opinions on it. And then I I want to come back and and hear some what some of the results are. Um because I haven't followed up on it since I heard about it.

Josh 8:40

Yeah, so so just a tiny bit more context uh without getting too far ahead of us, but um Japan was actually the first country in the world to universally adopt this sort of of plan. And that that went into that went into place way back in 1947. Oh that's an 80, almost 80-year-old policy. Um and many other countries have followed suit since then. The most recent country to pass legislation that essentially carved out time for women to deal with period cramps or whatever was Spain in 2023. Um, but other countries have widely adopted these policies already. So all that to say, they're not the first, they are the most recent, and it's getting some.

Pamela 9:26

Wow, that's wild. That's wild to me. Like never heard of this before. Never ever heard of this being an option, and yet it's been around for almost a hundred years. That's insane. That's insane. Okay. So so I'll so when I first heard this, um I I had mixed, I had mixed opin opinions, and honestly, they weren't very female friendly. Um, you know, my first thought was yeah, it was like, how do you keep people from abusing it? Like obviously your document you can't you shouldn't show proof of situation. Um, you know, you also can't show proof of pain. Um and so how do you keep people from just taking two days off every month for something else that's completely unrelated?

Josh 10:21

Yeah.

Pamela 10:21

Um, that was kind of my first thought. Um second thought was like, how is this fair to like men? Um like what would there be an equivalent? Like would there like how how would how are men kind of reacting to this? Um and it's just really interesting because that those were my initial thoughts because it just tells you just how ingrained in the system we are here in America of just like the first thing is automatically negative around you know, legislation around females. This is tricky for me because I don't agree with legislation on bodies. So, but I don't know, this is a little bit different.

Josh 11:19

Um for sure.

Pamela 11:21

Yeah, so you know, initially and I guess initially too, it's like, oh hell yeah, like that'd be awesome. Like to have, you know, the uh option to take time off. Um, you know, like there are days and we're gonna get just a smidge TMI here, where I might not necessarily have like a cramping issue or a pain issue, but I could have a heavy cycle. And I remember being just in in school and in work and having those moments when it's like, am I gonna have to go home? Like, because I'm having you know a heavy situation that month. Um, you know, so so it'd be nice for some of that um to be an option.

Josh 12:13

Um well, but I think these are good questions in that you you're like I think the point that or at least one of the points you're driving home is that I mean, not w women are not created equal. And so, like, you know, the experience that you have versus the experience that other women are having, and obviously I'm speaking to this without being a uterus owner, um, but the the experience that you're having versus the experience that other women are having are going to be fundamentally different. And at the same time, I I I see how they're working towards making space for whatever that experience is. Um when I initially, when you initially sent this to me, one of my first thoughts was I was impressed by the fact that Kenya, of all places, was making this kind of headline. So exactly.

Pamela 13:02

I want to hear, I want to hear about this. Yeah.

Josh 13:04

So for the uninitiated, I am um I have been to East Africa quite a bit. Um, there was a season of my personal and professional life where I found myself there a lot, specifically in Kenya. I've also been to Uganda, Tanzania, South Africa, uh, I've been to um uh Malawi, uh, had a brief stopover in Mozambique. Like I've I've been on that continent, spent some time there, particularly in Kenya. I've been there probably somewhere around 30 times. I'm not sure exactly how many. So this is a place I'm familiar with. I have dear friends who live there, like wonderful, wonderful people. Um this is a very, very patriarchal culture. Um, this is, I mean, women are not often in big positions of leadership, especially outside of Nairobi. So Nairobi itself is a very industrialized city. You can walk around downtown Nairobi, it's gonna feel like downtown Fort Worth. Like it, it's that there's large buildings, there's people everywhere, it's a hub for the United Nations, and so there's there's all sorts of different kinds of people walking around. Um, Nairobi itself is very industrialized, it's uh one of the more progressive places um in East Africa for sure. And uh it's still pretty patriarchal, and if you go any distance outside of Nairobi in any direction, you get into some heavily patriarchal cultures because it's a very tribal sort of, but it's a very tribal part of the world. And so there's a handful of sort of the the uh primary tribes in those areas, but in these tribal cultures, you know, in many cases, the men are the leaders. So I'm saying all this to say like this isn't a part of the world that I would expect to be passing any sort of legislation around uh protecting the experiences of women, for lack of a better reason.

Pamela 15:02

I mean, yeah, I mean very progressive, a very and more progressive than what we have, which is hilarious. Right. Um, you know, we are a more progressive country, but yet you have a more patriarchal country that's implementing this, right, uh, or has implemented this.

Josh 15:22

So Well, my my first question though, like in reading through, and this is actually mentioned a little bit in the article, but I but I thought of it right away, is like, would you as a female employee of a major organization feel comfortable going to your superiors who are likely males and being like, hey, I'm on my period and it really sucks, and I'm gonna take the next two days off because of that? Is that something you feel good about going to your leadership and expressing? Like, because to me, I think I totally hear what you were saying about the the potential abuse of it. I also think that that exists in just about any sort of PTO form.

Pamela 16:06

Like that is true. That is true.

Josh 16:09

It can get leveraged in all sorts of ways.

Pamela 16:11

Yeah. And I mean, honestly, corporate America has changed a lot, especially since COVID. Um, you know, there were a lot of great things that came out of that time period, not so great things that came out of that time period as well. But um I think also social media has played a big role in in perceptions and and the way that men start to talk about f feminine issues and you know, coming around to talking about cycles like it's not taboo or you know, like gross, like the the the I feel like, at least in the circles that I'm in, a lot of that is shifting to where it's becoming more comfortable to talk about.

Josh 17:02

Yeah.

Pamela 17:03

Out, you know, out. Um you know, growing up, um, you know, millennial, it was very much a thing you didn't talk about. Um, you definitely wouldn't talk about it at work. Um, you definitely wouldn't be talking about it with male coworkers. Um, so to get back to your question, would I feel comfortable? Hmm, maybe it depends. Like it depends on if the person that I'm working with how progressive they are. Like, is it something that they're comfortable talking about? Um but on the flip side, I also think that we shouldn't have to give reasons for why we're taking off like sick days, PTO, like vacation. Um I do sometimes fall into the like, it's none of your business why I'm taking this time off. Um, you know, and respecting privacy. Um I'm sure after it if this was implemented, I'm sure after a while people could probably start to figure out like, oh, I'm gonna be out today and tomorrow, like yeah, and then they could do the math. Um, but I also think corporate America has shifted a little bit. You know, a lot more companies are adopting unlimited PTO. And what they're finding is that those policies, people actually take less time off.

Josh 18:41

Yeah.

Pamela 18:42

Um, because they're like, oh, I have the time available, I can take it whenever I want. Um and so for the most part, like people actually take less time off. Um, and I kind of see this as almost one of one of those kind of things where it's like I would probably only use it if I really needed it.

Josh 19:04

Yeah.

Pamela 19:04

Um and you have the remote and on-site situation um and hybrid. So, you know, remote situation would be just for me personally, probably I probably wouldn't use it. Um because I I'm privileged in the fact that like mine don't usually cause me a lot of pain. Yeah. But I could definitely see like someone with PCOS, symptometriosis, like or just people, you know, women who have um just painful cycles, um, they could definitely benefit from this. Um I just I think back to like my time in corporate America and just how it was just so much suspicion and speculation around why people were like taking so many days off and all and so I think that's why my head went there originally. I mean, I guess my first thought was that's awesome. And then my second thoughts were wait, you know, you know, kind of these this this negative path. But if I was in the office, I could see still taking maybe a day off every couple of months or two, you know, just depending on how you know how and that's the other thing, is not your cycle every month isn't the same.

Josh 20:32

Right.

Pamela 20:33

Um you know, women know that. Men do not, um, or some do. Um, but you know, so I could definitely see where it would be beneficial in the times when you need it. Um and then with the hybrid situation, depending on how flexible your hybrid situation is, like I would just work from home on those days versus taking time off. Um again, it's kind of difficult for me to speak to it just because I don't really have a lot of those issues, but I do think it's I do appreciate that it's well, I wish it was being considered here. Uh maybe maybe it is uh somewhere. I don't know. Maybe somebody implements it, maybe some company has it or whatever, but I don't know. I just it was something I never heard about before, and I just was like, that's really interesting.

Josh 21:31

Like there was something that you brought up earlier, just as far as the perspectives of of men with this, of like, well, if if my female co-workers are getting to take advantage of this this PTO policy, like how is that fair?

Pamela 21:46

I don't or like what is the male perspective on that, I guess. Like, does it yeah, is it even like a fairness issue, or is it one of those like, oh, this makes perfect sense? Like That they would get, you know, maybe extra time off. But then what about abuses of that? And like, I don't know. I'm just I'm a little bit curious of your thoughts on it.

Josh 22:10

The problem with my thoughts is they're gonna lean pretty progressive for a lot of reasons. And and the, you know, not only am I, you know, married to somebody who is quite the feminist and uh, you know, is a huge huge believer in any sort of policy that gives women some, you know, uh additional flexibility and uh during all sorts of seasons of life, be it pregnancy, be it menstrual cycles, be it whatever. Um, you know, so I I am already kind of coming from a place of these kinds of conversations and considerations have been normalized in my life. And so I'm not I'm probably not a good representative of of the bulk of the male perspective on this. Yeah. I would hope that my male comrades would see this for the positive that it is and and understand that, hey man, we don't have to deal with this. Like, we get to skip all of this discomfort and and this annoyance. I mean, it's a massive pain in the ass. And so, like, I don't really feel entitled to have the same access to that kind of care when I'm not experiencing any of the same kind of situations and symptoms. And so I to me, if this makes the women that I am directly working with feel valued, feel seen and understood, feel like they have a minute to catch their breath in something that can be very, very difficult for them, I'm all for it. Like, I I have zero complaints about it at all. It's it's like the people who complain about, you know, well, this person gets to go take smoke breaks, and I don't get to take smoke breaks. Well, yeah, dude, they're also sucking on things that are gonna kill them 20 years earlier than they should. Like, yeah, it's not we're not talking about the same things here, and so yeah, I I think that's that's where my head goes is like I I am all for whatever makes everybody around me in the workplace feel like that they're seen, that they are understood, that they're given opportunities to perform at their best. And and even the like the article doesn't like it just went into into uh into action uh in December 2025. But um there's some comments from the the leadership of that county, essentially, who who helped implement this stuff. And he says, uh, you know, the and I think it matters that it's a he. Um, but he says, your biggest asset is your staff, who uh said Sakaja, which is the last name of the gentleman who implemented this. So the your biggest asset is your staff, said Sakaja, who shepherded the new practice and oversees a government where more than half uh of the employees are women. It starts with dignifying your own staff for them to feel that they're respected. I mean, that's good leadership, man. Like that's that's seeing and understanding the situations of the people around you and implementing policies that that provide support to those situations. Like, I'm here for it. Um will it be abused? Probably, yeah. But by a very low percentage of people, I imagine. And you know, I'm just to me personally, I don't I'm not that concerned about it, especially if the the byproduct of that is everyone gets to be more comfortable, everyone's more productive, everyone is you know, given the flexibility they need to feel like they're up to the task of doing their job well. And I'm way more concerned about working with people who feel empowered and like they have the tools and resources that they need uh on a practical level, and then giving them the opportunities to deal with the realness of life when it comes around.

Pamela 26:04

So um I'm here for it. So it would be great if if you know this was something, you know, we were considering at like the federal level, but yeah, if we're being real, we can barely get PTO. Like there's no government mandate around pay time off. We barely can get maternity leave. Um and so like I I just I don't see anything like this being being adopted federally. Um maybe some I could see some you know, organizations uh like Google and things like that, probably maybe they already have something like this. I don't know. I didn't dig into it. Um but I I a thought that was coming to me when you were when you were speaking is you know, yeah, we can barely get maternity leave and it's usually six weeks, which is nothing. If you've ever had a child, six weeks is not enough time. Um and like we're starting to see more paternity leave, um, being adopted, and so which is great. And you don't always have to take maternity and paternity leave at the same time. Uh again, that's organization to organization. Um but one thing I I I also thought about with this is like does it have to be like two days for you know menstrual, a menstrual situation? Um you know, what if, you know, I could almost see like a male argument of like well, I get headaches. I get like some other ailment, or you know, women not all women have their uterus anymore. Um you know, so so what does that look like to them? Um, you know, do they care? Or, you know, would they like to have two additional days for some other ailment that they're going through versus it just being around, you know, cycles.

Josh 28:23

So that's fair. I mean, you could even couch it as like, hey, what if we had like what if we implemented a policy where there's the kind of two days a month two personal days a month that are no questions asked? And so it's sure, if you want to if if you've got a particularly tough cycle and you're you're just really hurting, you're really uncomfortable, and it's reached the point of distraction, then by all means, like utilize those those no questions asked days and you know get what you get the help you need, you know, even if that help is rest, that's still help. Um and I think that easily spills over into the some needs that men could have. Now we're a bunch of prideful morons who don't like to take care of ourselves, but like there's there's arguments to be made for like, okay, what if I'm trying to see a therapist? What if I'm in what if it's not even mental? What if it's also physical? It's like, hey, I need physical therapy for this thing that I've been dealing with for years, and I'm having a hard time figuring out when to make it happen because office schedules are what they are. And so, you know, I maybe the solution on a broader level is that implementation of just personal days that we don't need to connect to a reason. It's just we we we're dealing with something in our personal lives, we need to step away and take care of it so that when we come back, we're coming back better than we left. And to your point about maternity leave and paternity leave, too, like that's you know, you and I both have been on the receiving ends of paternity and maternity. Well, well, paternity me, maternity you, obviously. But but like, you know, it's that is the the fact that we don't have any sort of nationally standardized program for that is ludicrous. Like exactly.

Pamela 30:11

So so like is as nice as it is to think about this, it's like we still have basic things that we need to address, you know, within you know, nationwide, as far as having sick time, you know, having vacation time. Like technically, uh an organization doesn't have to give you either one of those. Um I think they do have to give you maternity leave, the six weeks, but again, it's short-term disability. Right. You know, like it's it's not really time off. It's it you have to file for short-term disability um to get you know paid for six weeks. And and I think even then I only got paid like two-thirds of my paycheck.

Josh 31:02

Right.

Pamela 31:02

Um and so it's like I think we kind of need to to start with that. And then, you know, if we could ever actually get something past where we would have, I mean, honestly, two weeks of of time off uh a year is not enough. But no, if we but if we could even just get that and maybe two two weeks of vacation, a week of sick time, you know, six weeks of maternity leave, like mandated at the federal level, and that's just basic, you know. Then it's like, okay, now start folding in additional weeks for maternity leave, additional time for patern, you know, paternity leave, and then maybe like these two days. So I mean, I'm glad, I'm glad that all these other countries are getting this. Um, hopefully they have better time off policies than we do here in America.

Josh 31:58

Yeah.

Pamela 31:59

Um, but it was it was definitely something that caught my attention. Um, you know, because yes, feminist, progressive, all the things. Um, but it is nice to see positive legislation around females and women. Um and it being embraced, you know, like I said earlier when I mentioned this to my husband, um I actually ex anticipated his reaction to be similar to mine, but he was he just goes, Well, hell yeah. He's like, that's awesome. I was like, so to be fair, so he has he has come up in a male-dominated industry. Um, I have had I have had to I think he I'm not gonna take credit for this, but like he has seen the struggles that I've gone through in corporate and as a female and all the th, you know, things that I've struggled with that he hasn't. And now that he's kind of in a corporate role, he's starting to, he's been getting it. It's been a several year pro process, but like he's definitely on the feminist train now. Um, you know, like I mean, he's not like rah-rah, like burning boss, but like he he's definitely been surprising me with some of the things, just because again, from the male-dominated industry perspective, um, there are times I'm like anticipating him to be like, well, what are our two days? Or, you know, what about this, or what about that? Or, but he he just embraced it. And I was like, progress, progress over perfection.

Josh 33:44

Yeah, exactly. Well, and and any Europeans who are listening to a word we're saying right now are like, what are y'all talking about? Like six weeks for maternity leave and two weeks PTO a year, like that's that is laughable to most of Europe.

Pamela 33:58

Europe And they don't have to give it to us. They don't have to give it to us, right? Except for maternity leave. I think they have to for FMLA, you can take up to 12 weeks off a year.

Josh 34:12

Okay.

Pamela 34:13

So if you use up all your 12 weeks with maternity leave, then that's it. You're done. Like you get no more than 12 weeks. Those are not paid.

Josh 34:26

Yeah.

Pamela 34:26

It's just securing your job. If you want to get paid, you have to file for short-term disability. And I I filed for short-term disability, but I think with maternity leave, it only paid up to six weeks and it was only two-thirds of my pay. Um, so anytime after that, I had to use any PTO that I had saved up. So I was burning up all my vacation time, I was burning up all my sick time to even just get to 10 weeks off, which is still not enough time. No, and then you get screwed because babies need checkups every week, every month. You know, there's all this. So that's additional time off that now you don't ha have banks anymore. And so it's it's changing that that's how it was when I had my daughter that was 13 years ago. Um it's definitely things have come a long way since then, but again, there's the only government protection, if you will, is the FMLA leave. And all it does is ensure that they can't fire you while you're out.

Josh 35:37

Yeah. And and you know what a brand new mother wants to deal with? Paperwork. That they want to deal with like the process of getting all of that done in the right way, submitted in the right ways, and and then hoping that it gets turned around in a reasonable amount of time. And then, you know what other the other thing that makes perfect sense about all this is you know what, you're a brand new mom with a brand new baby. You probably only need two-thirds of your paycheck. That's actually that's gonna be enough, right? Because, you know, you don't have new things to account for in your finances.

Pamela 36:09

You don't have top of um all the health insurance crap you're gonna have to go through, like whatever that situation looks like for you. I mean, it is a nightmare to have a baby in America, like if you're a working mom. Um it yeah, you just yeah, there's a lot of it for what like there's all this paperwork for very little benefits. Like you gotta go through all these hoops and all this crap, and and then you're just like, oh, okay. Like thanks for allowing me to survive, I guess. I mean, just keep it. Heaven forbid I have yeah, and then I mean, on top of all the the childhood expenses, like, you know, I was fortunate in being able to breastfeed, but like not every mother can or wants to do that. So you got formula expenses, you've got daycare expenses. We've talked about that before and the cost of child care. So it's like I've let's just say I did this wasn't my situation, but like let's say I took my I got my six weeks of two-thirds of my pay. I used up on my, you know, PTO. Let's say I was out for 10 weeks. Now I'm coming back into the workforce. That means I have to have my kid in childcare. And I've just been docked a huge chunk of my pay. So I'm already starting at a deficit. But yeah, I'm grateful for all the paperwork just to get me to a deficit. This is this is amazing.

Josh 37:43

Right, right. Yeah, we're really doing a great job of taking care of the American family. And what's really funny to me, and I don't want to get off on this tangent, but I think it's worth noting just a little bit, is like our current presidential administration has pushed and pushed, like, we want to be a country that's having babies. We want to replace this population that we've lost and all that. There's been this huge push for families to have more kids. Well, you know what would actually help those things instead of you getting behind a podium and trying to regale us with how great we would be if it happened. Why don't we implement some of these other policies around maternity leave and around childcare costs and all this stuff? If you want people to have more kids, help them do it. Like anyway, that's a whole other deal.

Pamela 38:27

But yeah, according to our president, we we don't have the money for child care. We have more to to fund. Um that we started. Uh-huh.

Josh 38:37

Yeah.

Pamela 38:38

And we won't get down. That that's a whole new that's a whole other podcast.

Josh 38:41

We need to save that for a tequila Tuesday. Right? Yes.

Pamela 38:45

Oh, that's some tea. Um, but yeah, like they're making it harder and harder. Uh, you know, people are like, oh, fewer, fewer people are are having kids. Like, yeah, because you make it impossible. You make it impossible to have kids, to have kids safely, um, to afford them after they're here. Um, you know, we're people are barely scraping by taking care of themselves, particularly the generation coming up. Um and you want them to throw a kid on top of that?

Josh 39:18

Right.

Pamela 39:18

Um, I I heard somewhere, I don't have any statistics or anything, but like apparently like Gen Z is having less sex than oh yeah, I've heard that repeatedly. And I mean, honestly, like I don't blame them. Like, I would not want to bring a kid into whatever this is right now. Like, and I don't I I we would be hard pressed um financially to to I don't even want to know what daycare costs around here. Oh, it it's yeah, it and there's no subsidies, there's no help, and and this administration's doing everything they can to make it harder and harder.

Josh 39:59

Right. Um anyway, it's it's brutal. So just today, um I had uh so my my wife, my son, and I had lunch with my sister-in-law, my wife's sister.

Pamela 40:13

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh 40:14

And she just had a baby um uh a year ago, almost exactly a year ago. And so I have this adorable little niece, just the cutest little thing. Yeah, to to our listeners, I was we both my wife and I both were sending photos and videos to Pamela the whole time we were there. Um, but uh and she's just delightful, a great kid. And I the only way Emily, uh our uh my sister-in-law, she is working full-time at a large corporate job. She does well for herself. She she's worked hard to get where she is. I'm very proud of her. Um and she just that she's still relying on my mother-in-law as a twice-a-week caregiver, which I have absolutely no judgment on whatsoever, because it's the only way that she can afford financially to have this kid. Because to put a one-year-old in daycare costs, I mean, north of two grand a month easily.

Pamela 41:15

Yeah, and a lot of grandparents don't want to be babysitters, right? You know, like they this generation that's coming up, I mean, they want to have their own lives, they want to do their own things. Like, yeah, they love their grandkids, and but they don't want to be burdened with child. So again, I mean, you're losing that option as well. So yeah.

Josh 41:40

It's a lot. And and there's not there's not an easy solution, but but but what has to happen first is we have to have people in places of power that actually have these perspectives in the first place. And you know, if if if we're gonna get beat by Kenya in taking care of our women, like I hope someone's paying attention to that. We shouldn't get beat by Kenya in in this. I love Kenya, it is a great country, it's beautiful. The people are amazing, and we should be ahead of them in this. Like it's ridiculous. But anyway, I I love that the situation.

Pamela 42:11

To kind of like bring this back around. Um, I know that I I asked you to put a pin in the rest of the uh article. Was there anything uh in addition?

Josh 42:24

Um, so how it's kind of being adopted or it's it's new enough to where there's not much in the way of sort of updated statistics or anything like that. But there is some commentary which I did think was interesting. So um so I'm just gonna read straight from this article. Again, this is the Chicago ABC affiliate that published this, if anyone wants to look it up. But um it so it says there's been very little public objection. Critics have said that the policy could discourage employers from hiring more women, but Sakaja disagreed, saying he believes that women perform better than men when they are supported, which I think was interesting. Women currently lead the Nairobi County government's business and health portfolios. So there are women at the top of some of the decision-making bodies for this organization. Uh, and then I like this. Um uh this is another quote from Sakaja, who is the county governor, is what he's called. So it says, a lot of labor policies were written many years ago by men, the governor said. Women's rights are not anti-productivity, they are an input that creates productivity. It's actually an investment in your workforce. He said there'd be no financial impact as the county has more than one person for each role. Um, and then it kind of goes on to talk about uh some of the other countries that inspired some of this. And then there's some quotes from some women um in here, but that are mostly just kind of reinforcing what's what's already been said as far as feeling more productive because they feel seen and they feel taken care of. Um that's awesome. Oh well. Sorry, I just stumbled on this. I'm so sorry. Um I I didn't read this before. So uh at least twelve women from her department, including a senior director, benefited from the leave in February. The policy is a no questions asked, no forms filled arrangement, and offers paid leave alongside the usual sick and annual paid leave enshrined in labor law. Nairobi has implemented the policy using a cabinet decree and internal memo and some political blah blah blah. But basically, yeah, so they're saying it is no questions asked. So like, so they're not having to go to their superiors and say, hey, I'm on my period, you know.

Pamela 44:30

But um I mean, I I appreciate how they're marketing it. I mean, if it is just no questions asked, time off, I I appreciate that they are saying, like, hey, this can be used for that. Um and I I honestly love that it's a male that's driving this and and supporting it and defending it, which I mean is pretty awesome. I mean, it's it's hard to find that here. People in positions of power that are male who are willing to stand up for you know any type of female legislation. So, you know, I think that's amazing um and good for them.

Josh 45:10

Yeah, agreed. Good for them. I love it. I hope we see more of it. I hope they're setting a tone um and you know, creating a target to hit for more people. And it even mentions in the article, too, that um they're they're hoping that this is sort of a positive influence. And they they name mostly African nations, but uh I I think it's easily spread to you know, globally. I think this could be extremely beneficial, even if it's implemented in different ways, different areas, different cultures, whatever. I anything we can do to make life a little easier for people who have to bleed every month as a regular part of their existence doesn't seem like a bad deal, you know. I saw this shirt a long time ago that stuck with me. Um it's actually a former coworker uh uh wore this shirt on on a uh project that I was working on once. It said, anything you can do, I can do bleeding. Oh and I thought, you know, I mean it's a little it's a little pointed, but at the same time, I was like, where's the lie? Like, yeah, this isn't wrong.

Pamela 46:17

Well, and I think we forget about that too. I mean, uh at least in in my perspective, I mean, it just becomes so much a part of your life, and it's you know, you to stop and actually think about the fact like what's actually going on, you're like, oh like yeah, I I mm-hmm.

Josh 46:38

Um it's a it it's quite the I I really love that this exists, that this policy exists, that it's starting to make a little bit of news. I really hope that like speaking as a male, I hope that this uh continues to push things forward to normalize some of these conversations like in environments where there are men. Because you know what? For the dudes listening, guess what, man? Everyone in every woman in your life is dealing with this to some degree. And if they're not now, they were several years ago. Like this is not this is I heard it said one time that that a woman's menstrual cycle is the oldest thing that your body does, which I thought was a very interesting perspective. It's the oldest thing that your body does. Women have had cycles since women existed. And so the this is only taboo because we've decided to make it taboo. And and I don't think it serves anybody, including men, um, to continue with the taboo. It who are we serving? All we're doing is making ourselves we're giving ourselves permission to avoid something because it's it can be awkward. Okay. Life's awkward, dude. Like this is this is just part of our existence. And every single person listening to this podcast came from women. And we have women to think half the population is, you know, we would all do a little bit better to understand the the fullness of a population and not just be limited to our own experiences. But that is a soapbox, I'll save for a different day, too.

Pamela 48:18

But uh patriarchy.

Josh 48:21

Yeah, and what's cool is we're so close to getting rid of it, too.

Pamela 48:24

You know, it's just I know, I know. But I'm telling you, like, if the world had been run by women this whole time, like periods would not be a thing, like like like a topic, like a taboo or awkward, like it would just be part of conversation, like just like anything else. Um, it wouldn't be this like shame thing. Um yeah, that absolutely white people made it into. Sorry. No, not just that. I'm just kidding.

Josh 48:54

Um probably right, but no. I I yeah, I I love that this came up and and I think this it's important dialogue. And I I feel like if if in chatting through this we made anybody squirm, I'm kind of okay with it. Like it doesn't bother me.

Pamela 49:10

I I think that we we can we need to get used, like I don't want to I don't want to like say we need to normalize this, but like we need to make it not a thing, like not a thing that's like we avoid or that we're uncomfortable with, um, which is normalizing it, but still.

Josh 49:31

A little bit, but that's fine. Well, the other thing that I've been uh kind of obsessed with this week, um which I think most people have been obsessed with, oh, the Artemis II astronauts, oh man, put that stuff in my veins. I I okay, so before I get to so you and I haven't really talked about this much. We talk about loads of current events. We're constantly in conversation about current events, but we haven't really talked about this much. So before I go on a massive tangent here, what do you know about this? And and am I just leaving you behind in in trying to talk about this? Because I've been so fascinated.

Pamela 50:08

I mean, I've known about it for a while. Um I know that I didn't know it was going to be a quick trip. I I thought they were actually landing on the moon. I didn't realize that they were just kind of going around. Um, I could be incorrect, but uh my understanding is like this is kind of like a prep course. Like they wanted to go and like see the dark side of the moon, um, get some images. Uh, and then they were just coming back. I think they've landed. Uh uh like it was only a couple of days. Um I know there's gonna be uh I know that there are launches to Mars coming up as well. I don't know if this has anything to do with that. Um I've honestly been I've been paying attention to the the messages from the astronauts in space and all that, but uh I've been diving into some of the conspiracy theories just because it's uh it's interesting. Like I'm not a conspiracy theorist, like I do believe that we went on the moon, but it is just fun sometimes just to hear people's crazy theories about like if they're actually in space and it's just a green screen, and everybody's just nitpicking the hell out of like every frame of their videos and all that. So I don't know. I mean it's interesting, but yeah, that's about where I'm at with it.

Josh 51:40

Well, and we're not too far off. I so I um in in the week or so leading up to Artemis 2's launch, I was kind of paying attention because it was big news in like the aerospace world. And for the uninitiated, I'm a huge aerospace nerd. I love everything that flies. I'm fascinated by it. I I love just to well, it's your dad's profession, too. Exactly. Yeah, my my my dad and and a lot of the a lot of my dad's side of the family. Um, it it's sort of the family business. And so there loads of them are in aerospace in all sorts of different capacities from pilots to manufacturing to design, all of it.

Pamela 52:19

And DFW is a big hub for this. Like we've got Lockheed Martin, there's so many airports around here.

Josh 52:25

So huge.

Pamela 52:27

Yeah.

Josh 52:27

So it's I'm I'm always fascinated by anything that flies, and I'm always fascinated by things that go to space. Like I that's so cool. Um, and so I was kind of geeking out about the technology of it all, and then I started reading up about the actual astronauts who are who who were on the mission. And I'm telling you, that is four of the most wholesome people, like intelligent, skilled, but also just salt of the earth, good human beings. Like every time they talked, I was like, yes, more of this, more, just keep talking. I love everything that you're saying. Um and the they so they they it was a 10-day trip, and you're right, it was basically a scouting mission. So um they were testing the route that will be done by Artemis III, which I think launches in 2027, and Artemis III will land on the surface of the moon and will take with it a bunch of supplies and resources to start building a little bit of a base, basically, on the moon. Um, which I think is a piece of the puzzle in launching missions to Mars. Um and so the moon is uh a little more than 200,000 miles away from Earth, I believe. Um and uh so basically Artemis II, they did a big loop around the moon. They never got closer. They were like 4,000 miles off the surface of the moon. They didn't get closer than that, and then they slingshot it back to Earth and they they splashed down um just off the coast of California on Friday. And so at the time of this tape, we were filming on a Sunday, so it's a couple days ago. Um and then there were the so they were brought in and all these medical checks were done and things like that, and then um they they held this big event, and uh I also have this article pulled up. I'm I'm moving it to where I can see it right now, but um, they had this big event where where all of the astronauts kind of had a chance to speak about their experiences. Oh and I just I'm obsessed with these four. Like I think they're so great. And there's also this viral photo um that is the four of them that they've they've finished their mission, they're on their last full day, and they're on their way back to Earth. And there's this photo of them kind of celebrating their last day, and the four of them are just in this zero gravity group hug.

Pamela 55:00

Oh, I I I I think I heard about this.

Josh 55:03

Yes, and they're smiling and there's tears. Like, no, it's just amazing. And and I saw a post on social media that I agree with so much, and it was like, isn't this what we're actually craving? Like, isn't this level of community, isn't this level of togetherness, isn't this what we're actually craving?

Pamela 55:24

Apparently, we have to leave this planet in order to get it.

Josh 55:28

Right, which is ridiculous. But like, it feels so true to me, too. It's like, there's there's all sorts of of articles and publicity around this this epidemic of loneliness that that we all feel. And and there's a lot of reasons why that's the case. And uh some of it is social media, some of it is just the disconnects that that came as a result of COVID. There's there's a lot of things we can point towards that have created this sense of loneliness. But what kept coming to my mind when I looked at this photo, and I have looked at it a thousand times, is the amount of vulnerability that had to exist between these four people, is the reason why they feel that sense of closeness and intimacy. And and I do not at all mean intimacy in a sexual sense. That is not how I'm using that word. I I mean it is like the just a connection that that cannot be replicated in any other way. And in fact, uh Wiseman, who is one of the astronauts, I've got his quote pulled up right now. He he was the commander of the mission, his name is Reed Wiseman. Um he said, uh, you know, we're bonded forever, and no one down here is ever gonna know what the four of us just went through. And it was the most special thing that will ever happen in my life. Before you launch, it feels like it's the greatest dream on Earth. And when you're out there, you just want to get back to your families and your friends. It's such a special thing to be human, and it's such a special thing to be on planet Earth. And there's another guy, uh, one of the other um uh the other crew members, uh, he says, So when we saw Tiny Earth, people asked our crew what impressions we had. And honestly, what struck me wasn't necessarily just Earth, it was all the blackness around it. Earth was just this lifeboat hanging undisturbingly in the universe. I know I haven't learned everything that this journey has yet to teach me, but there's one thing I know, it's Earth is full of a heck of a crew, and it just like the perspective that they gained and the like I just I love these four humans. I want nothing but wonderful, glorious things for them. It's been such a treat to to watch all of this. And the other piece of it too that I enjoyed a lot was there were all these photos that also circulated of the control rooms in Houston and in other areas that were a part of making this mission possible. Those rooms are packed full of women, packed. And and I just thought, isn't this kind of what we need? Look what happened. We put women in charge of all of this, all of this super technical stuff, and look, it went great. It was there was no scandal, there was no like big revelation that it was it just was competency from start to finish. And I think that's the other thing that we're really craving. We are so sick of the incompetence of the world that we have been living in, and it's such a breath of fresh air to have something come along that feels like, oh, well, that went well. You know, we designed it to do a thing, it did the thing, everyone came home unscathed, popped the champagne, let's celebrate, you know. I and I I just I don't know, I've been obsessed with this whole thing, and I thought that the most interesting thing to me was gonna be the science of it all. I thought the most interesting thing was gonna be the aerospace and the rockets and the the trip around the moon and all this stuff. And by far the most interesting thing to me has been the four people in that like in the module.

Pamela 59:03

Like that's awesome, incredible.

Josh 59:05

So please, if for anyone listening who hasn't done a little bit of reading about this, just Google Artemis 2 and just read up a little bit. If it it will be a breath of fresh air for you because it's just such a representation of what can be.

Pamela 59:21

Um there's one story that I did hear about. Uh I didn't know if you were gonna bring this up, um, and maybe you hadn't heard about it, but I heard I think I know what you're gonna say that when they were on the dark side of the moon, they there was some sort of crater, like giant crater. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Josh 59:42

Yes, I do. Tell the story.

Pamela 59:44

Okay, well, I you probably can tell it better than I can, but my understanding is so that they're going around, they're on the dark side, they see this giant crater, and they're like, what are we gonna name this crater? And they named it Carol, C-A-R-R-O-L-L. After one of the astronauts' wives who is no longer with us.

Josh 1:00:07

Yeah.

Pamela 1:00:08

Um, and that was another one of those moments where I I absolutely believe what you're saying, and not even really knowing anything about the astronauts right now. Um, but the fact that they they chose to name this giant crater after this man's wife, like I just thought that was that was really cool.

Josh 1:00:28

It's extremely cool. So it was Carol, Carol Wiseman, who is the wife of of Commander Reed Wiseman. Um she she passed in 2020 at the age of 46 from breast cancer. Or I'm sorry, I'm not sure that it was breast cancer. Uh the article I read just said cancer. I don't want to misrepresent. Um the but she died of cancer in 2020 at the age of 46. Um and it just what an incredible story. Uh, and and being able to have this sort of beacon of a little bit of hope, a little bit of humanity, a little bit of of um just recognizing that uh, you know, not everything has to um be named after Trump. God, yeah. Yes. I mean, can we just sit here for a second and appreciate that that he didn't also try and have a creator named after himself when he heard about it? Come on.

Pamela 1:01:30

What he'll write an executive order.

Josh 1:01:33

I mean, you guys, what we should have done. Oh so I've been doing my Trump impersonation around Pamela somewhat regularly, and that's the reaction I'm starting to get. And the only reason why I like that reaction, because I have no desire to really troll you, uh, but that means that my impersonation's getting good enough to bother you. And that makes me happy, and that I'm getting good at the impersonation. Um, but yeah, so but but Carol Wiseman, what a wonderful human. It says she dedicated her life to helping others as a newborn ICU nurse. Oh, yeah. That was her career. Um and then it says, despite a long list of professional accolades, Commander Reed considers his time as an only parent his greatest challenge to the most rewarding phase of his life. Wiseman was named Commander of the Art of Two Mission in 2023. Um and he really struggled with being named as the commander because he was a se he's a single dad of two daughters. And his thought process was, what if I go and the worst happens? Oh, yeah. Like I'm the only parent they've got. And and so apparently it took him quite some time to even agree to command the mission because he I mean, I don't blame him. I don't either, but and you know, I I can't even put myself in that place. I have no idea like how I processed something like that.

Pamela 1:02:56

But well, and then to kind of roll this in to one more topic, I know I don't know where we are on time, but um we the you and I and our spouses went to see Project Hail Mary.

Josh 1:03:14

Yes, in keeping with our space theme, right?

Pamela 1:03:17

Exactly. Um and so so we were in uh it was a Cinemark theater. They they have this new thing called Screen X. So basically you've got the screen, but then it they've also got like screens that like project out um and so you kind of feel a little more immersive. Um they also have these D-Box seats. Um so like they'll they'll shake and kind of move. So I normally don't get the D box seats unless I'm gonna be in like a like an action you know kind of thing. Um, but I went with the D-Box and the the Screen X and I'm actually really glad that I did because first of all, that movie is incredible. Like I I there are not words to describe the emotions that you'll feel in in that, you know, and that sense of vulnerability like you mentioned, you know, with the that you kind of feel, I mean that a little bit just in that like when you're kind of immersed in that film, um which is one of the reasons why I'm like terrified of space, is just like it anything can go wrong. But that that movie was phenomenal. Um but one of the cool things about the D-box seats though is like the moments where you're kind of f they're kind of floating.

Josh 1:04:44

Yeah.

Pamela 1:04:45

This the seats would just kind of lightly move and like you really kind of it kind of messed. It messed with me. I don't know if it messed with you, but like it messed with me where I was just like, wait a minute, I think I'm moving too. Like and it's just very subtle, but I mean, I'm glad we splurged on that. Um and uh I would absolutely I I'm not usually a a two-time theater person, but I would go see that multiple times.

Josh 1:05:15

Same. Um it was so good.

Pamela 1:05:17

It was so I I didn't I went in not knowing what to expect. All I knew was it was about a teacher that goes in space. I mean, I didn't know if it was like a true story, I didn't know anything about it. It was not what I expected, not that I had expectations, but it it was phenomenal.

Josh 1:05:37

It's it's funny and it's heartfelt and it it pushes against uh just some norms that we've come to uh absorb kind of organically. It it's it's a great film. Ryan Gosling is phenomenal in it. I I d if he doesn't get at least an Oscar nod, at least a nomination, then I I Don't know what y'all are doing. He's he's he carries the film, he absolutely carries the film. And you know, he has a I'm I'm not giving away anything here that you won't see in the trailers. So, because I would love for anyone hearing us to actually go see this movie, it's worth the time and money to go see it yourself. Yes. But you can see in the trailers, like he's obviously interacting with an alien that he meets. And I was worried that that was gonna be cheesy and weird and and not really believable. I didn't know what direction they were gonna go with that. Was it gonna be violent? Was it gonna be overly intelligent? What like what's the deal? And just the way that they even wrote that character and the way that he interacts with it is brilliant. And like I just I was so impressed with that whole film from top to bottom. I thought the writing was great, the acting was great, the art direction, just how everything was designed, how everything felt was really incredible. I found I fell down this huge TikTok rabbit hole of I found the puppeteer that actually controls the alien. And he oh, I say I found, like I did it. The algorithm fed me this.

Pamela 1:07:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh 1:07:08

And um and I just kept going. But the even just this guy's approach and thought process and how he moved that puppet, it was so thoughtful. Like, like he clearly sat with this for a long time, went what do we want this character to be, and how do I reinforce it with how I make this character move? And it's just brilliant. I thought it was great. Um, so please go see this movie. Like it deserves every award that it wins. I hope it wins loads of them. Um, I realize that space science fiction films don't usually do well in the like awards, uh, but I hope this is a this is so much more than that.

Pamela 1:07:49

Like, yeah, it it there are those moments of anytime you watch a space film like you know, Interstellar or that one with Sandra Bullock, I can't remember what it's called. You get that that fear, that that like fear of what can go wrong in space. I mean, you get a little bit of that, but that's not what this movie is about. It's it's space is a big part of it, but it really is about relationships. I mean, again, like it's it's it'll make you laugh, it'll make you cry, it'll it'll give you all kinds of feels. I mean, we walked out of that film. First of all, it was the first time I've watched a film where I'm not like looking at the clock to see like, okay, like, are we wrapping up um soon? And I walked out and I just didn't know how to feel. I just was like, that was a whole emotional journey. Um, and I would do it again, like in a heartbeat.

Josh 1:08:49

So there's our endorsement for you, ladies and gentlemen. Um, it is a it is a premeditated opinions approved movie. We will rubber stamp that all day. Um and we would love for you to to like go see it. It deserves a big screen. I know it's gonna be hard to find now that the Mario movie is out because that's kind of taken up everything, but if you can find it on a big screen, go see it on a big screen. It's so worth it. Um but yeah, well, we're gonna wrap this thing up. We we are so grateful that you joined us for a slightly different kind of episode of premeditated opinions, and we're gonna do some more of this. Um, we're also talking about some additional interviews that we have uh like coming down the pipe that we will need to get those scheduled and all that stuff. But that's that's gonna be a big part of this next phase, too. Um and yeah, we've got uh we've got some ideas and some plans and and we're optimistic. So yeah, thanks for hanging with us while we've been virtual this time. Um but honestly, I think it's gone fine. And so yeah, we'll we'll continue to hone our processes and and try and make this better.

Pamela 1:09:50

For the record, I've been the one that's okay with this.

Josh 1:09:52

You have been the one that's like yes, I I will take personal responsibility for this because I am a snob, I am a bougie snob that cares very much about production value at probably too much. And so I will own that. Um, but I've built a career out of being a production snob, so you know it's served me well in other ways. But thank y'all so much for joining us. We will be back in your ear ear holes in two weeks. We will not be here next week, we'll be here the week after that. Um that that uh routine will continue at least until the summer, and then we'll reevaluate and we'll keep you posted. Um, but thank you so much for being here and supporting us. We're so very grateful, and uh, we'll be back with you very soon.

Pamela 1:10:32

Bye. Well, that's it for premeditated opinions, where the thoughts were fully baked and only mildly regrettable. If you enjoyed today's episode, congrats on having truly excellent taste and podcasting opinions. Following us on YouTube and Instagram is a quick and easy way to support us. So if you like literally anything about today's episode, please like and subscribe.

Josh 1:10:56

Also, send this to someone who needs to feel seen, dragged, or both. We'll be back next week with more unsolicited insight and emotionally responsible spiraling. And until then, please stay hydrated and behave yourself in the comments. But if you don't, at least make us laugh.