Josh 0:00

At the end of the day, like it doesn't really seem like there's a a clear right path forward. Like, you know, what is right inside this scenario. And I I love That depends on how rich you are. Yeah. But you can say that about a lot of yeah. Ethics really just gets cloudy depending on how much you're worth.

Scott 0:19

Ethics and morals the more zero you get, the less you care. Right. Yeah. Figure it out.

Josh 0:26

Be president, you know, and at some point they hand you the keys to the Oval Office, and you know, then you really get to ignore ethics.

Speaker 1 0:32

Right.

Josh 0:33

Yeah. Yeah. Basically.

Pamela 0:43

You're listening to premeditated opinions because yes, we thought about it, and then we said it anyway. I'm Pamela.

Josh 0:50

And I'm Josh, and we are two people who somehow share a brain and decided to weaponize our brains with microphones. Each week, we unpack anything from politics and religion to carpool dread and everything in between.

Pamela 1:03

You know, it would really help us a lot if you followed us on Instagram and YouTube. Giving us a like and a follow is probably the best thing your thumbs will do today.

Josh 1:12

We are not experts. We are just way too confident in our own opinions. With all that being said, let's get started.

Pamela 1:19

I do want to take a step back real quick. Um, because I know that we're talking about individuals and shops and dealers and all that, and I kind of want to just make sure everybody understands what the differences are between those different levels. Um, because you know, obviously you've got the Joe Schmo dad who's just trying to save a buck, who's buying the haze manual, or going on you know, YouTube trying to change out his alternator or whatever. Sure. So you have that level, and then you have a tire shop. Like, can can you kind of walk us through the levels and maybe like the the knowledge that's needed and the access that you're granted at those different levels?

JT 2:06

I don't think it's based on like really where you work at. I think it's based on just what type of technician you are.

Pamela 2:15

I understand, but like when you were working at the tire shop or the independent shop, I mean you still had to have ASC certifications to do certain things. Like it's not like they're hiring you know, there is no ASC certifications to do anything.

Scott 2:33

Yeah, there is no certifications for nothing. I mean, unless you're at an elite level where they say, like, like I talked about earlier, I don't I don't have my EV certifications, so I don't work on EVs. That's only because I work at a professional level. There's nothing stopping me from going out in the driveway and taking one apart. Like that there's no there's no police that are gonna show up and go, you ain't certified to do that.

Pamela 2:57

Like it just because what I'm thinking through is I know a lot of the pushback for right to repair is from these independent shops who are saying we don't have access to these certain things, we don't have technicians who are able to do these certain things, and so therefore the the manufacturers are essentially forcing people to bypass and go straight to the dealership for all of the repairs. Now, some of it is we'll say legit. I mean the the programming and the batteries and all of that kind of thing. Um, so but then some of it is possibly predatory, um like predatory, but like I I'm trying to figure out like go ahead.

JT 3:44

So what I see happening is what Scott has already said. He's like, I hook it up and it says to replace this part, and if that don't fix it, I go to the next part and I fix that. And I go to the next part and I fix that, and it tells me each step of the way what part to fix. So if you if that's all you're giving to your technician at the dealership, that is all you have to give to a third party. Right. Now, and so what third party can there are very few third party shops or independents or in general, just like even at your mom and pop or an individual level, is going to hook up the software okay, it says to replace this, and they go and replace it and it doesn't fix it. And now it says go and replace this, and they go do that and it doesn't fix it. And now it's the next one. That's three three or four parts that they have to eat, like they're paying for at an individual level. But they're getting the exact same thing that the dealership technicians getting. The dealerships can just absorb that cost.

Pamela 4:53

How is that any different from the way things used to be?

JT 4:58

Well, the way things used to be is you paid for you you would pay the dealership because they would have the training, the knowledge, the special tools to properly diagnose your car. And people like me and Scott would spend however long checking wiring, checking, you know back with what was it, uh ignition timing, checking like all kinds of things. Five gas analyzer probably nobody born since 2000 has an idea of what that is. But that's what I'm saying, like you are paying for the knowledge and the expertise to be able to use and to be able to do these things. And I think like one of the better things is you know, a guy calls out a plumber and asks him for I forget how the story goes, but I ask him for you know where something is. He goes over, marks the pipe, and he says, Okay, that's five hundred dollars. And the guy's like, Well, you didn't do anything, you just mark the pipe, and he said, Well, yeah, you're paying me for my expertise. Yeah, you pay me to know which pipe to mark. The knowledge to know which pipe to mark. Yeah. So that's what it used to be, and I think we're moving towards an era where because we have a technician shortage, because people don't want to beat up their bodies anymore for very little money or flat rate where you have to you're constantly running around all the time. And write to repair on top of that now is you're going to get a lot of situations where it is just, hey, replace this part. Yeah. Hey, replace this part, hey, replace this part. And that's that's what we're going to because anymore, like, people don't know. Like they don't know how to do a voltage drop test, they don't know how to read resistance, they they don't know how to do these things anymore. And it's and again, it's also like manufacturers have made it easier to be just like, okay, I know the short is somewhere in this harness, we're just gonna replace that whole harness. I'm not finding this. Right. Whereas back in the day, like to get that harness or whatever was almost impossible. Or, you know, you had to spend the time to find where the short was, or whatever.

Josh 7:17

So I think like we we from a vehicle standpoint, I totally see the complexities of all of this. The rights repair has also made a pretty big splash in consumer electronics and things like that. And you know, we referenced Apple earlier because they were definitely at the center of a lot of this conversation when it started to come out. But what Apple did that was smart was they said, okay, what if we just made our repairs a lot more accessible? If we develop a program, and that's really what a lot of what Apple care does.

Scott 7:48

And so Well, they teamed up with Apple Fixit too.

Josh 7:51

Right. Yeah. And and now they they they've created a path that allows people to now now obviously this doesn't really work as far as vehicles are concerned. Everyone tries to sell you your extended warranty whenever you're buying a car. Most people aren't going to bite on something like that. But at least on a consumer electronics side, Apple said, hey, we can we can do something about this. And then a lot of third-party retailers jumped on board, like your best buys and microcenter and people like that that now offer repair things. Even Amazon. When you're buying a piece of electronics off Amazon, do you want to get additional coverage for it? And I think that's a that in some ways is a response to right to repair. It's like in instead of in instead of giving a consumer something to complain about and then, oh, I have to go back to Apple to get my phone fixed, it's like, oh, well, I have Apple Care, so it's no big deal. I just pop in, I hand them my phone, they fix it, or they give me a new one. And and then suddenly it's the it they've kind of taken the conversation away, which is really smart. Now a lot of other now, I I come from a area a consumer and professional electronics um perspective where like I deal with cameras all the time, like high-end, uh, you know, pretty fancy broadcast grade cameras. No consumers repairing those. Like the the even the knowledge base doesn't exist online. Like you can you can jump on YouTube and search up a you know uh lens mount replacement for a Sony FX9, you're not gonna find it. It's not there. Because that specific of a repair and that kind of electronics, there's just so few people who actually know how to do it that you have to send it somewhere. Like the the knowledge base doesn't exist. But even within some of those spheres, you're starting I'm starting to see services pop up that are very similar to Apple Care and things like that, where it's like, okay, I'm essentially buying a tiny insurance policy for this piece of electronics. And then if something does go haywire with it, I have a clear path as to how to get it resolved. And the manufacturers now become part of the solution instead of only kind of being the enemy, which I I'd I have absolutely no idea how you get there with vehicles in a way that that has any staying power, and I know that's a lot of y'all's background. Uh, I think consumer electronics is trying to solve this using their own means, and it's working to some degree. I mean, Apple Care is popular. I have it on every single Apple device I have. Um you do now.

Pamela 10:19

Yeah, yeah.

Scott 10:20

And the only the only hang-up, like I feel like a lot of it could just be dissolved if the manufacturers of any of this looked at it differently. The software, at least in my opinion, is the only real hang up for an argument against it. I don't care if you want to fix your own phone, if you want to fix your own TV. I don't care if you want to fix your own car. I hope that you have access. I hope you have the tools because for one, people need to learn to do things on their own. And I encourage that. Like work with your hands. But for two, you still don't know what you're doing. So even if you have access to the tools and the parts, you don't know what you're doing. I already see it every day. There's a reason where you can go to AutoZone or O'Reilly's or Amazon and you can buy parts that are half the cost of whatever the OE part is because they're made cheaply. You know, you take there are I'm all for aftermarket parts when they work, but there are a tremendous amount of parts that I do catalytic converters, spark plugs, any major electronics, please buy those OE because the aftermarket ones suck. There's a reason that Catalytic converters $2,000 from the dealer and it's $500 on Amazon. It's gonna fail. So I don't care because this is a lesson that people will learn. You will spend your time, you will spend your effort, you will waste your money, you will still bring it to a professional to have it fixed correctly. So that kind of the actual hands-on part of it, regardless of whether it's a vehicle or, like I said, Apple, Samsung, any of that, they probably don't care about that. I mean, other than their brand image. You know, you don't want a handful of stuff coming out looking terrible and it's got your name on it. But those people are gonna fix their iPhone screen, they're gonna put a new battery in it, it's not gonna be right. And they're still gonna take it and get it fixed. The software for me is the that's the I don't know what the right answer is for that, but that's the biggest hang up because that's the stuff where I think the real damage can be caused because of the age that we live in. Like, because there is people, you know, it takes it it re it takes a few smart people to fix a phone, to fix a TV, to fix a car. It takes a few smart people to destroy an entire infrastructure because they had access to the like anybody where there's a will, there's a way. And if you like I said earlier, if you give somebody the keys of the kingdom on any system, somebody will figure out how to cause absolute chaos. And most of the time with the other stuff, you'll just tear up your own thing, and then you you wasted time and money and you go get it fixed. But something like that could be detrimental to society.

JT 13:16

There is just but outside of the software thing, there is one one thing, like, okay, yeah, you put the battery wrong in your cell phone and you you've screwed it up. The worst that's gonna happen is it's gonna blow up in your pocket and it's gonna hurt you. You put a ball joint or control arm in a car and you decide to take it on the you do it wrong and you decide to take it on the freeway at 90 miles an hour.

Scott 13:44

Kill a whole family.

JT 13:46

Yeah, so like there is like I get the safety side of it, but I mean, we never have, and we are never going to be able to control that. And it does happen, I mean, accidents happen in professional settings too.

Scott 14:00

Like it is what it is, even outside of the rights repair, that's been happening. People have been something like that's what I've done. Nah, they've been doing it forever. Like what they want access to now is is is deep access. And yeah, and I want to be able to have people have access to that, but I want other people to not, and I don't know how to I don't know how to segregate that. Like, I don't know what the what the line in the sand is.

Pamela 14:26

It's like it's like the Second Amendment. Um moving on.

JT 14:33

My thing is like as far as it comes to mechanical repair and like the vehicle operating. By all means, like everybody get everything, we'll give you everything that we can to replace parts, because I mean I want people to have like the repair instructions and the proper torque sequence on things and the proper torque value because that's hopefully they read it, hopefully they go through with it, whatever. Like and that's everything that keeps it to run and drive on the road, but I don't think we should be limiting cars with software to run and drive on the road. So, like that's where the disconnect is, is like if we could get like the software portion of it not be involved with the car driving, then fine. Because I mean, you're not sure. I think we're way past that, unfortunately. A lot of cars get like over-the-air updates and things like that. Like they get those from the manufacturer. We can't give that ability to someone else. Right. I agree with that. It see, so that's my thing.

Scott 15:48

That's why I said once you have that ability to communicate wirelessly like that, uh with enough time, people, somebody will figure out how to do some pretty nefarious things.

JT 16:00

Do y'all do y'all even do y'all even make a car anymore that doesn't have electronic power steering? You know, I don't know. It uses like traditional hydraulic steering.

Scott 16:14

If we the only ones that I think we do are like big, like 45, 5500s. Like we are our traditional passenger vehicles, trucks. Yeah, I can't tell you last time I replaced a power steering pump.

JT 16:29

So exactly. Okay, so electronic power steering controlled with electronics. Right. And you've done it. Electronic throttle.

Scott 16:38

Electronic, I mean, everything is an addition.

JT 16:41

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And what was the we watched a movie a while back, and it was it was like a kind of like apocalyptic where all the somebody took over everything. All the they were crossing like an off-ramp, and all the cars are flying and crashing into them, yeah.

Pamela 17:02

Was it a movie or was it Black Mirror?

Scott 17:04

No, because at the beginning of the movie, the giant cargo ship crashed into the beach. If it's the same one, we watched that too. That one.

unknown 17:11

Yeah.

JT 17:12

It had uh Sander Bullock in it.

unknown 17:16

Yeah.

Scott 17:17

Yes. I can't I can't no. Not seen. I I've seen we watched it too. That was actually a good movie, but I can't remember the name of it.

Pamela 17:24

So this is something I'm thinking about. Like, so just through the evolution of the last you know, my lifetime of you know, watching my dad fixed cars, and I look good for 80. Okay.

Scott 17:42

That's fair.

Pamela 17:42

So and then having my own first car, my first car was a 90 Corolla. I did as many of my own little repairs on it as I could, uh, you know, the junkyard with my little crappy spools and whatnot. And then, you know, as I started to get newer cars, I started leaning more on like taking them in to get things done, things that I couldn't get done. Um, and now I have a Tesla. And I honestly don't know what I would go to a third-party shop to have done on that. Maybe maybe a 12-volt battery change, I'm maybe tires. I don't know, but I'm almost at a point now where it's like I don't want anybody but Tesla touching that vehicle because I don't know how all this stuff is interconnected. I don't know if I get tires changed that I have some other updates that need to be done. And and I think with the cars kind of going trending toward this where there's less and less mechanics, you know, I don't even have an under the hood anymore. It's all underneath, you know, basically just the battery and the computer. I mean, there's um there's and there's you know um window switches. Yeah, but I mean, what would I ask to a third party?

JT 19:02

Rubber and stuff.

Pamela 19:05

Yeah, but I I parts. Whatever. Um, this is the part where they just make fun of me. But it's fine.

Scott 19:15

But that's been the whole time.

Pamela 19:16

It really is to a point where it's like I don't know, and I think this is where a lot of that right to repair is coming in is the fact that it's like people don't even necessarily know what to go to a third party to get done anymore. Um as these EVs are evolving.

Scott 19:32

But even okay, to that point there. You drive a Tesla and you say, I don't even know if I would trust going anywhere right now. So even if you knew, even if right to repair, which I think there's been several, there's four or five states that have passed some kind of right to repair laws already, but I don't think it's either one of our states. But even if you knew a third party had all the tools and access to equipment and everything that a Tesla repair facility would have, would you even still go there because that's not what they specialize in if you knew they had the capabilities, or would you still take it to the actual facility that specializes in your vehicle? I would you trust the guy that works on it once a month because they have the tools or the people that do it every day.

Pamela 20:28

I mean, like, so I do know that some shops have to be like certified.

Scott 20:34

Like they have to be to depending on the manufacturer, so depending on what you're doing to a vehicle, what you want to do to a vehicle. Like General Motors can we can allow other shops. We don't, like typically, or at least where I work, but if you go down the street to Billy Bob's and have a transmission put in your truck and it goes bad for whatever reason, it's beneficial for them. That's the thing. Even if a place does is certified to work on whatever, it's beneficial for them to go, that's under warranty now, take it to the manufacturer. So they ship it. They don't have to deal with it. We can authorize those repair facilities to work warranty on that. The reason they don't want to is because I would assume most manufacturers are like mine. Warranty labor rate, warranty parts, everything is run at a cheaper cost than what you would pay as a consumer coming in. I don't know exactly what it is, but just to use round numbers, let's say if you come in and pay, it's $200 an hour. If General Motors is paying for it, it's $100 an hour. So when that repair facility is authorized to do warranty work, that's all they're going to get paid. So why would they want to do that? They should know you go take it over there and let them deal with it. They already got the customer pay work there, and then they don't have to deal with the problems after the fact. So even if somebody was authorized. To do work if that was a situation that they even had to go through. That's like I said, they may have the capabilities to do it, but would you would you trust that person? And would you trust them if the repairs were $8,000 at the dealer and $3,000 at Joe Bob's? Like at what point? Because I think a lot of this people's trust is tied to how much it cost. Like if somebody's going to fix it for $100 or it's going to be $7,000, are you willing to gamble with $100? Or are you, you know, like it that's what it boils down to a lot of times is these that's why I said earlier, I don't care if the third parties have access to all this stuff. Because it's it's still going to blow up in their face. Like there are going to be like there are going to be plenty. And that's not to say there are plenty of capable people out there that do not work at a manufacturer-specific repair facility. Plenty of capable people. But there's more that aren't. And those are going to be the ones that are working on it. And that's fine. Let them do it because then when they screw up, it still comes to me, and it probably is going to cost you more because now I have to unwind whatever they screwed up and fix everything else.

Pamela 23:14

So do you think eventually I mean third-party repair is not going to be a thing? I mean, as as it'll always be a thing.

Scott 23:22

It'll always be a thing. There will always be like because right to repair is it's it's not like that's always existed since the inception of machines. I mean, you go back 40 years and there was 15 TV repair places walking down the street because all you were doing was putting a screen and you're taking it off. Everything was accessible because the majority of that was the same parts across the board. It was just aesthetically looked different. So you may have something that was a little unique. Now I won't say everything is unique because, in general, the majority of these vehicles are exactly the same. Like in the grand scheme of how they work, because other manufacturers have innovated something, like we talked about earlier. Somebody else takes it apart their versatile. There are a few outliers that do things that do one thing a specific different way, or it's better, or it's what have you. But in general, an engine control module is an engine control module, a wiring harness is a wiring harness. They're not all plug and play, but 95% of the cars are the same across the board until you get something that's brand new and innovative. So there will always be facilities that can repair, I don't want to say minor things, but that will be able to repair a vast majority of something going on. Cars are always, unless we're in the jets, cars are always gonna have tires, they're always gonna have brakes, they're always gonna have stuff like that.

Pamela 24:58

I know, but that's becoming less and less. Like that's what I'm saying.

JT 25:01

Like no, because those things are every car has brakes.

Pamela 25:05

Okay, every car has tires, every car has suspension. But I have no more under the hood, and there's a ton of stuff under the hood. I don't even know how to change my wiper fluid, or not change it, but add it.

JT 25:15

Okay. I don't know where it's like that's what I'm saying, though, is like those things are all those basic fundamental things are always gonna exist, so there's always going to be a third. Even in 50 years, like we don't know. Well, I mean, yeah, we don't know.

Scott 25:32

Like I said, unless we turn into the Jetsons, yeah, I mean, tires tires have literally remained basically unchanged since the beginning. Wiper blades, I mean, you're always gonna have to have a clear, you're always gonna have to have glass, you're always gonna have to have there, you're always gonna have to have lights replaced, you're always gonna have to have everything, not everything, but a lot of stuff uses LEDs now and stuff. You don't have an incandescent bulb. But that doesn't mean somebody can't, with the knowledge, take a headlight assembly out and replace it. Take something out and replace it. There are benign repairs that can that will always be done. As long as we have roads and highways and there are motor vehicles, there will always be small stuff that can be accomplished.

JT 26:17

What what's your oldest car, Scott? Like mine personally?

Scott 26:21

Yeah. I have a 70 Chevelle.

JT 26:24

Yeah, so you weren't even born in the 70s, right? And you have a car from then. Yeah, right. So like as as long as people like Scott exist, and I I mean, up until recently, I had a car that was 20 uh 95, so 26, 70. 30 years old. Yeah, 31 years old.

Pamela 26:45

Um there as long as there's people like us, like okay, but that's going to be less. I feel like it's gonna be less and less over time.

Scott 26:54

It will, but not in our lifetime. Like that is the thing. No, and all like some okay, okay.

Pamela 26:59

So this was worried about what happens after me. No, into the shortage, the the technician shortage, and like people are starting to see like, oh, my only path now is dealership or manufacture. Like, is what do you think is deterring them from pursuing this? I mean, because y'all's paying.

Scott 27:23

No, it's pe it's peaks, it's peaks and valleys. When I started working on vehicles a hundred years ago, I was at the See, I'm only 80. I was at at the time, I didn't realize it at the time, but looking back now and knowing how it all works and knowing how the system works, I was at a good money-making era. The problem is, yeah, my time management, my experience, my capabilities did not match up to me making money because I I just wasn't at that level. And as my experience grew, the rest of it went down. So I had to go through a lull. And it's blue collar, white collar, blue collar, white collar. When I worked at the independent, uh I met several people that were younger than me that were going through college for internet security or administration or something that was not, they were just working there for to have a job, to make money, to go on, but this wasn't their passion. This wasn't what they were doing. They are now making tremendous amount of money, they're doing great, they work from home, it's fantastic. But as they got out of that, because they were in that peak for them, where everybody, well, I don't want to be a plumber, I don't want to be a welder, I don't want to work on cars. I can stay at home and make 150 grand a year. Well, you and everybody you've ever known had the same idea. So they did that. Well, now we're at we're coming back up for the blue collar, and it's not just automotive technicians, it is plumbers and welders and electricians. It's the people that literally make the world go round. They build the houses, they build the cars. So we do have a shortage, but a lot of because most manufacturers uh and the and the dealerships and stuff in in the automotive industry, they're pay that it's not tied directly to them. The the dealerships are independent, they're not we just fly the flag. Like we we do our own thing, so they're paying everything is set up not from the manufacturer, so they're allowed to do pay and do whatever they want. I'm fortunate I worked a place that pays me extremely well for what I do, but it wasn't always like that. I mean, because you go back so many years, every Tom, Dick, and Harry showed up at with their lunchbox, they're ready to go to work that day. So you had 50 guys that you're ready to hire. So if you said, Hey, I want to raise, hey, I want this, they're like, We don't need you. You know, we got all these other people that do it for less. That doesn't happen now. The more advanced these automotive uh manufacturers make their vehicles, and not even them, just anything, like any machinery, the more advanced it gets, the more money they have to pay people that don't even know what they're doing. They're gonna have to get you hired and pay you. I mean, some of the apprentices I've known have made an amazing amount of money to have no knowledge of what they're doing. But they're in a a building that we can teach them, we can show them, and in 10 years, five years, whatever, they will be worth what they're getting paid. Yes, that's what it is. It used to be you already knew this, we're paying you. Now it's yeah, you don't know anything, but we're gonna have to invest in you and hope you stick around. And if businesses are smart, they will continue to invest and they will continue to cultivate those people so they won't be the ones left behind because and it'll go the other way. You give it 10 or 15 years, and it'll go back to everybody's making a hundred dollars an hour being a plumber, and all they do it, and there will be no media specialists, there will be no internet security, there will be no, you know, and they'll have to go back. And it it's always been that way. So I that stuff doesn't bother me.

Josh 31:26

That's a great point. Uh for starters, I love that in one podcast episode we have entirely solved right to repair. Um, I definitely definitely have have so much clarity on uh well, I mean, I say that kind of tongue in cheek, but I actually as I've been sitting here listening to the two of you, because like I I I came into this with so my own thoughts and biases, but in listening to the two of you, I uh what's just incredibly clear to me is that there is no clear answer. Like that that's that's not right now sort of walking away from yeah, and and I I don't think it's gonna get easier to solve. Uh it seems like in every measurable category, we're trending towards something that is just gonna become more and more complex. And I I think that you know what we're gonna end up having to rely on, which is kind of terrifying, is having to rely on like manufacturers to do the right thing.

Scott 32:28

That's precious. But exactly. That's ridiculous. But that's just that's horribly stupid.

Josh 32:34

Oh, you're cute. You're cute. Like, I I could barely push the words out of my mouth without laughing. Like it's it's not gonna be things to that though.

JT 32:42

Like the first one is what is the right thing?

Josh 32:45

Right, exactly. Yeah.

JT 32:47

Like and then yeah, and then we expect someone to do whatever this right thing is in general. Well, your right thing is not somebody else's right thing. Exactly.

Josh 33:00

Right, totally, totally. And so that and it and now we can easily get into ethics and morals conversations and and you know, all that. I I my head kind of continues to pull me back towards this concept of ownership and like what is ownership in in 2026 when you have you know Teslas and Rivians and Lucids that basically no layman has any business working on because those systems are so complex and and all that kind of stuff. But but in the same conversation, I can say the same thing about the phone in my pocket. You know, I I I fundamentally understand basically what some of those components do, but not all of them by a long shot. You know, like I I can't crack open an iPhone and identify every component in there, and neither can most other people. And so, you know, it it's it's laughable to think that manufacturers are gonna start doing whatever the right thing is. Um I think that this is just one of those conversations that we don't have any choice for it to be ongoing. Like it feels like something that will continue to be a source of push and pull, and maybe that's the right thing. Maybe, maybe developing some sort of comfort in that conflict is the right path forward of like maintaining the conversation and continuing to explore what makes sense based on individual industries, maybe even individual products. Um, and that gets complicated, but so is the phone in your pocket. It's complicated, so is that car that you're driving. It's complicated. Like, you know, I probably shouldn't be given access to all the software that vehicles rely on. I don't have any business messing with that kind of thing.

Pamela 34:38

Oh, could y'all imagine if I had that?

Josh 34:41

I would very much like to see that.

Scott 34:43

Like, that's one I think too, like if this was 40 years ago, there would it be a much smaller argument because everything was mechanical. There wasn't nearly software and stuff wasn't nearly as prevalent. So, yeah, okay, I want to fix my tractor, I want to fix this. The biggest thing I about it was like with the John Deere lawsuit, is I understand where those people were coming from. And you know, and we've talked about the complexities of fixing things and batteries blowing up and everything else that could potentially go wrong. But you have a guy who's out in a field and his half a million dollar tractor broke down, and he's got a buddy down the street that he's trusted his whole life that can fix it, and they might even know what's wrong. It might be a hundred dollar part, but like you said, he's got to wait weeks to take it to this authorized person or have them come out, whatever it is, have it towed, whatever this expenditure may be. And every hour, every day that's not running, that's lost crops, that's lost money, that's this dude's livelihood. That's a very extreme case where I very much link because I'm like when it comes to right to pray, I'm like 9010. Like I think everybody should be able to fix their stuff, but I also see where the corporations and the businesses have legitimate concerns and they have reasons to not allow people to have some of this access. The I don't think the parts and things like that are that big a deal, but it's the other stuff that goes into it. It's the software. But when you take a guy like that who's got to just sit on his hands because he's at the mercy of one particular person or one particular institution to fix his livelihood, that becomes a for somebody like that, that becomes a real problem. Like your average person might just be frustrated that they can't go get their phone or car fixed down the street. But for somebody like that, that might be his whole year. That might be his whole pro his whole money. That's his whole life. So that's much better.

JT 36:52

Two weeks to harvest his crops. In that two weeks, all his crops are dead. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I'm from Clarkston's farm.

Pamela 36:58

Clarkston's farm. I know that was thinking.

JT 37:01

I was too. Okay, Scott.

Scott 37:03

It's very difficult. It is. So, Scott, have uh I've got cabbage and tomatoes growing out back. It's not that bad.

Josh 37:12

So, there is a TV show that I would love for you to watch. It's on Amazon Prime.

Pamela 37:18

You've watched Top Gear.

Josh 37:20

Yeah.

Pamela 37:21

With Jeremy Clarkson.

Josh 37:23

Jeremy Clarkson.

Pamela 37:24

You know what I'm talking about?

Josh 37:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Pamela 37:27

Okay. Go ahead.

Josh 37:29

Are you aware of his other show on Amazon Prime called Clarkson's Farm? I'm not. Oh, Scott. This is a must-watch. You gotta watch it, dude. Does he grow cars? Yes. From from the ground, he grows cars. From little cars.

Pamela 37:46

He has a Lamborghini tractor. A Lamborghini tractor.

Scott 37:50

Yeah. That's actually how they started, I believe, was Lamborghini back in the day.

Josh 37:55

Uh Tractors and Bicycles, fun fact. The Lamborghini manufacture. Tractors and bicycles. Um, but the so Clarkson's farm I I don't want to give a lot away, cu, but it's there's a lot of episodes up now. So Jeremy Clarkson, because he has loads of money, he bought a farm in the Cotswolds in England. And he initially bought it basically as a joke. And and he has talked openly about this that he bought it just because he wanted to be a few. Basically, yeah. That's exactly what he was doing. And hilarious. He started to get into farming basically so that Amazon Prime could just film him being a terrible farmer. And then something really interesting happened. He started to care a lot about being a good farmer. Now, the show still has plenty of hijinks in it. There's still plenty of bits, there's still plenty of ridiculous. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, if we know anything about Jeremy Clarkson, if he shenans once, he's gonna shenan again. So like he had this like you have this transition between where he starts, love me through it, just love me through it, uh he he has this transition from where he starts where he's kind of intentionally being stupid to by about the the end of the first season, beginning of the second season of the show, he's starting to really transition and start to take this more seriously. And then by the end of the second season, he's not only taking it seriously, he's starting to do advocacy work for farmers, specifically in the UK, but all over the place. And he's won awards, he speaks at conferences, he he's like a legit farmer now, and you get to watch a lot of his process and evolution into that. But what's really interesting is like I knew very, very little about the farming community. I've learned loads about what it is to be a farmer from watching that show.

Scott 40:06

I used to play farm life on Facebook, so I know all about so you are you're already an expert, basically.

Josh 40:11

Yeah, I'm like, yeah, clearly.

JT 40:13

He's got goat simulator on his LC. Yeah, yeah.

Josh 40:17

Yeah, that game is hilarious, by the way. But uh the Isaac plays it, it's so funny. But anyway, all that to say, like, there is this whole subcommunity in farming that is impacted by right to repair in ways that none of us really are. Yeah, and then over and above that, dude, you gotta watch Clarkson's Farm. It's so so good.

Pamela 40:40

I Amazon Prime coming out with a new season, or they read it for like season, dude. It's so worth it.

Scott 40:47

It is.

Pamela 40:48

You you Amy would love it.

Scott 40:50

Yeah. Probably Amy loves a lot of stuff. I do not.

Josh 40:55

And I gotta hand it to him. I gotta hand it to him. Like, for the most part, the show is a bunch of laughs and it's a good time, and you'll learn a lot, and you kind of watch them struggle through different parts of the farming season, and they'll come out of nowhere uh here and there and like discuss something kind of legit and a little bit serious. And and I feel like there are these brief moments of like education along the way that hey, it's it's changed my perspective on a lot of that kind of stuff. The the farming community and the value and and the difficulty and the community and all that. So anyway, it's worth your time. This is our shameless plug. Uh this segment's sponsored by Amazon Prime. Um God. God, I wish. Yeah.

Pamela 41:41

Do you have any last comments on right to repair before we call it?

JT 41:47

Not really. Do you have any comments on Clarkson's farm? It's great. I think with right to repair, like I said earlier, like I I'm in the camp of if it keeps the vehicle operational by all means. But if it is you know your radio going out your infotainment system going out is not necessarily operational. So like I kind of sit with and that may be hardware or software related, so like I feel like that's not necessarily operational, it's a convenience. Right. So that should be kind of like and it contains the most IP most of the time. So like those those things should be kept separate. Because it also, like, and we didn't even touch on privacy, but like a lot of your personal information lives on those infotainment systems.

Pamela 42:47

Here goes another 20 minutes.

JT 42:49

Yeah. But so like, do you want do you want to do that?

Scott 42:53

Well, I mean, but yeah, most people carry their phone to their radio. They're doing blue, like, and if that means your stuff, your phone book is in there. I mean, our vehicles will you get text messages will come up on the screen because they don't want you to look at your phone and stuff. So, I mean that yeah, that opens up with access, that opens up a door to that.

Josh 43:10

So, yeah, I mean it's it's complicated, it's not gonna get easier, and uh I I really I love the conversation though, and I think this is important to have, and I think it's something that is gonna continue to be more and more meaningful in the next 20 or 30 years, and you know, uh God only knows the direction of consumer professional electronics, consumer professional vehicles, things like that. It's all continuing to evolve way faster than we'll be able to keep up with. But I I I think this is a pretty uh important topic to keep in front of people. Uh and it's just uh at the end of the day, like it doesn't really seem like there's a a clear right path forward. Like, you know, what is right inside this scenario. And I I love that depends on how rich you are. Yeah. But you could say that about allowing it. Yeah. Ethics really just gets cloudy depending on how much you're working.

Scott 44:07

Ethics and morals the more zeros you get, the less you care. Right. Yeah.

Josh 44:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Pamela 44:24

Alright, so to kind of land the plane here, um uh Scott, thank you for joining us with perspective and um and your shenanigans.

Josh 44:37

And your really big mug of juice.

Pamela 44:39

Yep.

Josh 44:40

It's gone.

Pamela 44:41

It's apple juice, people. It's apple juice.

Josh 44:43

It's empty.

Pamela 44:44

It's empty. I mean, that's typical. Um yeah, he's gotta go refill. So yeah. And then thank you. I've been trying to get this one on here for a while, and I finally picked a topic that grinds his gears a little. So um yeah.

Josh 45:04

Yeah, yeah. No, I I I appreciate you jumping in, man. Uh I I wish that uh I I hope this happens again. I I'd love for that to be the case.

Pamela 45:13

Maybe next time we'll be live from Louisville.

Josh 45:17

That would be really fun, actually. Yeah.

Pamela 45:20

We don't just I've been trying to get him and Amy to come down here too.

Josh 45:23

So absolutely. Yeah, we'll show you all a good time. Oh, relax. It's not that bad.

JT 45:30

So are you. It's like a two and a half hour flight. I'm right here. I'm right next to me.

Pamela 45:36

You've been to Europe, so don't even.

JT 45:38

Yeah, didn't you go on a cruise for like in the Mediterranean or something?

Pamela 45:43

Yeah.

JT 45:44

We went around the British Isles.

Scott 45:47

We took a train to Scotland.

JT 45:49

Yeah. That's not near your house. That's way further than we are.

Scott 45:54

We went to the Caribbean in January.

Pamela 45:58

We have a pool. We have a pool.

Scott 46:00

Yeah. And good barbecue.

JT 46:03

Uh do you have unlimited drinks?

Pamela 46:06

We can arrange.

JT 46:07

Could probably be arranged.

Pamela 46:08

As long as it's not Sunday.

JT 46:10

Yeah. Yeah. I I know people we can Wait, no, beer. You can get beer on Sunday just after church hours.

Josh 46:19

Yeah.

JT 46:19

Okay. Because that's an appropriate law that very clearly shows the Sunday. Hey, we have that too.

Josh 46:27

Yeah, you can only have access after 12 p.m. when everybody loads up on Saturday.

unknown 46:33

Right.

Scott 46:34

Gotta get you Jesus juice.

Pamela 46:35

Yeah, but like the liquor stores here close on Sunday.

Scott 46:38

Like you can't, you can't even go to beer here till like I'm sorry, you can't buy beer in a store to like one. But you want to go have a mimosa, you can go to a restaurant. Exactly. As long as they serve food, you can drink all you want. Well, pay me wrong.

Pamela 47:00

I mean, it was like, I don't know, 80 years ago since I lived there. So anyway.

Josh 47:05

At your advanced age, it's really a miracle that you're remembering much of anything. You know, I think I saw you on the Flintstones one time.

Pamela 47:14

Anyway, thanks, y'all. This was fun. Um hope everybody enjoyed the conversation. And um we're gonna have to have Scott back for tequila Tuesday.

Josh 47:25

Oh, absolutely.

Pamela 47:26

That's gonna be a blast because he didn't really show his full personality. He doesn't want to scare y'all. Um, but yeah.

Josh 47:34

That would be awesome. Yeah, I I'm fully on board with this. But all right. Well, thank you so much for joining us at Pre-meditated Opinions. We are thrilled that we were uh allowed in your ear holes once again. Um, and we hope that you continue to join us. Uh again, we've changed up our uh release schedule a little bit. Our last episode was a touch late because I was a touch late and we just kind of got behind on the and then I was I was in San Fran, and it was a whole thing.

Pamela 47:59

So anyway, as Josh says, love us through it.

Josh 48:02

Love us through it. You know, it's gonna be fine. But but this we're gonna maintain it every couple of weeks uh with release dates on Wednesdays uh moving forward. And yeah, please follow us on all the things. Substack is the big one. Please join us there. Um but YouTube is a great place to follow us as well Instagram, Facebook, all the things. And we would love for you to come back and hear what other chaos we get up to in the next uh couple of weeks. So thanks for joining us, everybody.

Pamela 48:29

Well, that's it for premeditated opinions, where the thoughts were fully baked and only mildly regrettable. If you enjoyed today's episode, congrats on having truly excellent taste in podcasts and opinions. Following us on YouTube and Instagram is a quick and easy way to support us. So if you liked literally anything about today's episode, please like and subscribe.

Josh 48:51

Also, send this to someone who needs to feel seen, dragged, or both. We'll be back next week with more unsolicited insight and emotionally responsible spiraling. And until then, please stay hydrated and behave yourself in the comments. But if you don't, at least make us laugh.